The Conversation with Susan and Whittney

Surviving and Thriving: Summer Travel, Service-Oriented Careers, and Susan Turning 40

• Whittney Gould • Season 3 • Episode 7

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Susan and Whittney reflect on Whittney's summer work travel, careers that align with your priorities, and Susan's 40th birthday.

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Website: susanandwhittney.buzzsprout.com
Instagram: @susanandwhittney
Facebook: The Conversation with Susan and Whittney

Susan:

Hi, Whitney. This is our first surviving and thriving episode. I was talking with you recently that one of the things that we said we were going to do on our podcast, it says it in our intro is that we're going to talk about how we are surviving and thriving. So I wanted us to talk today about how we are surviving and thriving. What are the ups and downs what's going on in our lives this summer, the summer of 2023. So here we are.

Whittney:

thank you for reminding me that we are surviving and thriving because I think it's important for us, to talk about it.

Susan:

Today, I feel like I'm surviving a little bit. I am recording outside my normal habitat. I am dog sitting at my sister's house in Maryland. And, there's all these noises outside, like someone mowing the lawn or weed Whacker. I don't know. I just moved rooms to not hear the noise. And now I'm hearing it. Out the other window, so I am surviving today with trying, not to have the sounds of suburbia in the background, which is ironic to me because usually when I'm in the city, you could hear a pin drop.

Whittney:

Yeah, that's very interesting. Maybe you're just, immune to city sounds.

Susan:

That's true. But, the weed whacker might make an appearance on today's episode, but hopefully not.

Whittney:

Well, it's, just an extra little layer of flavor, the suburban flavor.

Susan:

That's right. Well, I've had an interesting experience so far at my sister's house cause I've had to care for her two dogs who are a little bit out of sorts cause Devin and her family had been traveling a lot this summer. I think they miss, they miss their, their family at the dogs, miss their family. Um, and they've been needy for me. They can't make up their mind. Do they want to go in? Do they want to go out?

Whittney:

Meanwhile, Mowgli is basically snoring behind me. You can see his little feet.

Susan:

And for those that don't know, Whitney has a dog named Mowgli. I don't know that we've ever mentioned Mowgli on an episode. So yes, she has Mowgli who is super cute. He loves to chew on ice cubes. He's the best.

Whittney:

he does love ice cubes. we took him for a walk yesterday and it was a little bit warm, so he had ice cubes yesterday, too. Yes.

Susan:

I just love that. So Whitney talking about surviving and thriving this summer. We've had all sorts of things going on. right now I'm on summer vacation as a teacher. We're off in the summer. So that's been really great. For me, the biggest thing is always finding a routine in the summer because we don't have school, as an obliger, which is someone who needs the outer accountability. Sometimes it's hard for me to stick to a good routine because I really could do whatever I want. But I know for you, you've been traveling around all over the place with your job. You just finished your summer travel, which. Started in May, right?

Whittney:

Yeah, well, it's funny,

Susan:

Whitney, I know that you love the summer travel and that's probably one of the favorite points of your job. But could you tell us first of all, what is your job exactly? What have you been doing this summer at all your different travel projects and sites? I'd just love to hear more about how you were able to manage traveling for months on end in the summer and staying sane.

Whittney:

Suze, that you say that you're having trouble forming your routine in the summer, because you have, less things going on. I also find that it's hard to stick with a routine in the summer because I have more things going on. So, it works both ways, first off. so, Suze, as you said, I work for an organization called Warrior Scholar Project. it's a non profit that helps enlisted veterans and service members, prepare for the transition to higher education. So, one of those... challenges that, enlisted veterans and service members face if they are separating from the military or have separated from the military and are thinking about going to college is that they haven't been in a classroom probably for a long time or if they have, they might be trying to muscle through it on their own and it's just not an ideal situation, right? They're a lot of times going back to school as an older student, between the ages of. You know, 21, 24, 36, and they're in a classroom with traditional age college students who they, might not feel that they have a lot, in common with or, similar struggles. they might have families at that point. So it's just, it's a really big transition. And, my primary role at Warrior Scholar Project is I'm the Director of Communications and Marketing, so that's the role I fulfill for the organization all year long. But in the summer, I get an extra, little hat to wear that I, that I love, which is I get to go to our programs, which we have academic boot camps hosted with 21 college and university partners across the country. And we We host these academic boot camps. They're immersive experiences to simulate what it's like to be in college. So, we have a group of veterans and service members coming to a campus. for example, the campuses that I traveled to this summer were Yale University, Brown University, and Columbia University. And they are living in the dorms. They're eating in the dining halls. They're going to class with, and being taught by professors from that university. And also by peer mentors that are also other student veterans. And so it's a really cool experience and it kind of shows them that they can do this, right? they have what it takes and they can gain the confidence that they'll succeed in college. So, in the summer, as I said, I get to go to these programs and I spend Roughly 10 days at each program. If we do a one week program, that's how long as a staff person I, I have to be on campus. so, I go away for fairly long work trips in the summer, and this summer, at the beginning of the summer, I had my nephew's graduation in Maryland, and then I went from there straight to training for work, in Florida. And then straight from training to a 10 day program at Yale. So, my first travel experience of the summer, I was away from my husband and Mowgli, for 23 days.

Susan:

Wow. So I guess my question, first of all, I should backtrack for a second. I think it's incredible. The programs that your organization puts on, it's such a great idea. But of course it makes a lot of sense that the veterans would be so far removed from that academic experience. I'm sure that would be quite a transition. So it's incredible. And last year I got to see that a little bit firsthand when I visited you at Princeton,

Whittney:

Yes.,

Susan:

and got to meet some of your fellows and some of the people in the program. And I thought it was just so cool that you were staying in the dorm and, simulating this whole. Experience but my question is, how are you able to travel that much and be away from Mowgli, Nate, your home? Do you feel like you're off routine? How much does that really affect you?

Whittney:

Well, obviously, being away from your family is hard. But if I'm going to be away from my family, at least... What I, I feel what I'm doing when I'm away from my family is worth the sacrifice, right? I'm putting good into the world in some way, so that's helpful. I think it is always hard in the summer because it seems like I have a routine at home and then I have a routine when I'm traveling and the travel routine is, is kind of short lived in the way that I'm there for ten days. So I, establish a routine and then I leave and go home, right? So I think sometimes it's harder to establish the routine there, even though each course I'm at has a very similar schedule. but like exercise, for example, not always knowing what, facilities are available whenever I'm going somewhere. So like when I'm home, I'm like really into my gym, we do personal training, I play a lot of pickleball, I'm very good about being in a good exercise routine when I'm home. I mean, I've, we walk our dog, there's a lot going on. depending on the campus I go to, and if we have gym access, that can be, unpredictable, right? This summer, oh, two of the three campuses that I went to had gym access, but it was varying. So, what I need for my normal fitness routine, only one of the campuses really had something for that. So, that's challenging, but the other campus that had gym access was also in New York City, so I could always just go for a walk and walk as long as I wanted because there's like an endless options of things to see in New York City, right?

Susan:

Right.

Whittney:

So I think the, exercise routine and the sleep routine are two of the things that it's hard to go back and forth between. one thing that I always do now that I learned last summer, to start doing was I got a travel pillow that's a really nice pillow and that really helps because sleeping on a dorm bed with the, pillow they give you that's they buy them in like the thousands and they just hand them out, right, is not really conducive to getting a good night's sleep for me. I'm beyond the point where I can just like, I'm a side sleeper, so I can sleep on like a hard floor and be okay. So, packing a travel pillow has been a game changer in the sleep department.

Susan:

Whitney, by travel pillow, is it a smaller pillow or it's literally just a separate pillow that you use for travel or is it one that's a little bit more compact?

Whittney:

both. So, I got what's called a pillow cube, which I can, put, we can put a link to the show notes. I'm a side sleeper, so. Finding a good pillow can be difficult, right? But there were all these ads on Instagram one time for this pillow cube, and it was specifically for side sleepers. And so I was at that stage where I was like, let me just try it. Maybe it's cool. and it, the actual pillow cube is a, it's like a cube pillow, so it comes in this little travel size, And I liked it, but it was kind of small. So, they make a bigger one for my bed, so I, Once I realized I liked it, I immediately ordered the big one for my bed. But also, it comes in really handy for travel. And it's easy to compress into a compression bag.

Susan:

That sounds really smart. And you had mentioned about the pillow cube. you also use packing cubes as well for your trips.

Whittney:

Yes, packing cubes are really helpful because you can categorize the types of things you need, a lot of people have, a standard packing list, which I probably should make one in writing somewhere, But, for now, I have things I need and outfits I need for my travel, Which my travel, I might need, when I travel for boot camps in the summer. I might need casual clothes for every day. My camp counselor attire, as I think I jokingly called it when you were at Princeton. which is my work polo and some shorts and some nice walking shoes. Cause, walking around these campuses, you have to be comfy. so I might need more casual wear for day to day stuff that's comfy. But then, we have an end of course reception at each of our events. So, I need a formal... Dress and, dress shoes, as well. So I have to pack a range of outfits. The last, campus I was at this summer, went right into our alumni conference at Princeton. So I got to go back to Princeton after Columbia. and I needed a variety of business casual outfits for that conference. So, just having the packing cubes allows you to designate a cube for each purpose. Or at least for me, it, it, that's how I use them.

Susan:

Yeah, I actually started using packing cubes this year as well. I feel like I need more of them, because I, yeah, I ran out, so some of my stuff was in cubes and not others,

Whittney:

Yeah, they've been a huge help for me. I ended up getting, a set last year before I did travel, and then I immediately bought a matching second set because, as you said, I feel like you need, a certain quantity of them just to even get started. even now when Nate and I go places, he's always like Hey, can I have one of those cube things?

Susan:

Yeah, I noticed my sister, on her, our family vacation, she was using, and the shoe organizers that you can buy, for kids clothes, you can put an outfit inside each one of those little shoe. Yeah. Pockets she had whole outfits put together for her kids that included the shorts, the top, what underwear and socks and rolled it all in a little ball and put it in each little pocket. thought that was pretty clever. so there's all sorts of little travel hacks.

Whittney:

I think that it's helpful just to figure out, which one is sustainable for you because, for me, the packing cubes are helpful, I also like, those compression bags, I don't know if you've ever seen them, the, travel compression bags, so, if I'm at a campus where there's not access to laundry, I would just, put them in a compression bag and, roll them up so then they take less room in the suitcase but, they're kind of away from anything that you have in your suitcase that you may not have worn on the trip or you may have washed and, is still clean in your bag. and I, I use one of those for my pillow as well because it, is able to compress my pillow down to a much smaller size so it doesn't take up as much room in my suitcase.

Susan:

Oh, I love that. That's such a good idea because it just keeps everything more compact and manageable in your suitcase.

Whittney:

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Susan:

I know that you were telling me offline. Really summer travel is where you're thriving. You're not really surviving that. Everyone else thinks that you're surviving. Cause like I said, other people are projecting their anxieties like, Oh my gosh, you're gone for so long. But really, for you, you're enjoying it so much. So maybe you could just go into briefly of how your summer travel is really, when you thrive, it's your favorite time of year. And why is that?

Whittney:

currently I work remotely, so I don't get to see my coworkers in real life very often. And summer is one of the few times that I get to see them and interact with them on a somewhat of a regular basis. at our first campus, Yale, we had two, cohorts running concurrently, so I got to see several of my colleagues, both, our seasonal fellows and some of the folks that are on central staff with me full time. so that was really cool. At training, I got to see everyone. So I think for me, a lot of it is the people and, part of that is the people I already know, right? The people who are a part of my work routine, but I just don't get to see them very often, and that makes it exciting because it's, feels like a special occurrence. But also, I really just love watching the impact of our programs in real time. seeing the students come in, seeing them their very first day, how they're excited, but you can tell they're a little bit nervous, and then as programming starts, The nervousness comes out a little bit because it is an intense program, and it's intentionally an intense program, to show them that they can do it. But, there is a point. In the week where, you can see that they're, feeling the stress. But then you also get to see them overcome it, so it's that, rewarding experience of, watching the, growth that happens in such a short time. And then seeing them basically, graduate from the program on that, final Friday, right? that's really cool. and so I think, again, if I'm going to be away from my family for this long, It should be for something that is impactful as that, right? And it sort of fills my cup in that way, if that makes sense.

Susan:

Oh, absolutely. Whitney. Actually, what you just said dovetails perfectly into what I was going to talk about next about how I'm thriving is, I recently just experienced seeing students of mine graduate. I understand completely the fulfillment that you feel and seeing students overcome a challenge. Maybe really, watch like the self actualization process. You're seeing them maybe start out with some trepidation, anxiety, and then by the end they've achieved something and you can see how proud they are. You're proud of them. It just feels like this big full circle moment. And that's exactly what I experienced, as a teacher. This past, spring, the fifth graders that I had when I first began my job just graduated eighth grade. So it had been a four year cycle and then students that I had started working with, at my current job. I've only been there for three years, but some of the students were already sophomores or juniors. By the time I started, they just graduated this year. So I was able to see graduation for. students that I had in fifth grade, graduate eighth grade, and then students that I had in the middle of their high school career, graduate high school, that to me was so fulfilling. So rewarding. I had never gone through that process with students before, and it really helped for me to see, why I do what I do, because even though I, I always enjoyed my job, but it's. Sometimes it's really difficult as a teacher to see, what this all adds up to because in the moment you're just, you're just in the moment, you have a hard day and it's really hard to understand, where this eventually leads for the student, for the student's family, for yourself. and so it was just so. Fulfilling and gratifying to finally see the students reach these milestones and really to put everything in perspective of Oh, this is, this is why that struggle that we overcame together was so important. And this is why that matters. Like now this is a huge. Point in their lives. And I guess until their family was there at graduation, I never really realized how much the student success means to the family, especially for students, when I'm teaching ESL students that have come from other countries, their parents brought them here for, an education, a degree to be able to work and earn jobs and send money back to their family. And, really achieve that American dream. And I felt like I was a part of that. It was hard to see in those day to day moments in the classroom. I feel so enlightened and inspired. I really understand like what this all means.

Whittney:

Yeah, that's, that's honestly entirely it for my job too. And I mean, I should clarify, I'm not the person, teaching the students. I'm just there for, logistical support while the teaching and learning is happening. but I, I make a point to get to know the students, that we're spending time with that week. And then... We also have, like I mentioned, our alumni conference at the end of the summer. And so that's particularly special because then students from the past cohorts that I've been on site for are at the alumni conference and I get to see where they are at their career in their careers now, there were several of the students that I had last year. at Princeton, who were at the alumni conference this year, and they're applying to college, or they've gotten accepted to college, or some of my students from last summer have taken research experiences. I had a number of my students actually be accepted into the Yale, research experiences for veteran undergraduates program, so I got to see them when I was at Yale, and it's just, it's so rewarding and fulfilling, and, It it reminds me that, there is good in the world and that I'm a small piece of, producing that good in the world.

Susan:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I can tell how dedicated you are to your college projects and your students as you're sitting here now. No one can see, but I can see you're wearing an MIT shirt.

Whittney:

Oh, yes. Yeah.

Susan:

I don't know the full effect of Your job. But when I was there briefly visiting you that one time, the people that you work with and your students seem like such incredible people. They were really awesome, very friendly and warm. And, it felt like I was getting a little sneak peek and something that was very special or pivotal in their lives. That's really the beauty of any sort of a program that helps people achieve a goal. You're helping these students reach milestones along the way and helping them become who they're ultimately going to be. And really it is very, very hard in the daily grind as a teacher. You just don't see that big picture. But I think that now that I've experienced it on a couple of different levels, that's really going to inspire me throughout the school year. It's not to say I'm not going to have hard days. Cause I am, and I have that expectation now, it's not going to surprise me when things are tough. but I think just knowing this is going to matter one day, like one day, I remember one girl that just graduated this year, I was really pushing her every day to do her work. She'd always be like, why are we doing this? Why do we have to do this? But then at graduation, we almost cried when we locked eyes and she just didn't really have to say anything. She just gave me a hug and wanted a picture with me and her family was there. And I was like, Oh my goodness. All those times that she drove me absolutely crazy

Whittney:

Mm hmm.

Susan:

and she argued with me every step of the way, but here she is graduated. And she's a better student for it. I have more motivation now. I know. What it's going to feel like when we get to that, that end point and sometimes perspective really helps the day to day, knowing where it's all going

Whittney:

Yeah. and you and I have talked about how it's very important for us to have jobs where we feel like we're making a difference, whereas, maybe some people, that's not a, major motivator or a big priority for them in a job, maybe they just really need, to focus on their paycheck or they're working a lot. To live not living to work or whatever, but I know you and I are both very career focused and for us Having a meaningful career is a big part of that we wouldn't be working so hard if we didn't feel that we were, making a difference

Susan:

Yeah, absolutely. Listeners don't really know my journey, but I started out in the journalism field and I'm still a writer. I still love to write. I know I do mention that I'm a writer in the intro of our show, but I never really talked about my journey. But one of the reasons that I decided to go back to school and switch careers, more than a decade ago at this point is because I didn't really feel that in journalism I was having that much of an impact. Now there are still rewarding moments in journalism. I still feel them today. Like when you write a really impactful story about a person or a family, you know,, that means something to that person or that family, that their story is being shared. And I've had some Moments where I feel goosebumps for writing something really important for somebody or, you're capturing a legacy or something like that. So I do feel like there is obviously gratification in journalism. There's power in writing, but I didn't feel like I was having the daily impact I wanted. You spend a lot of time behind a computer or sort of in your own head when you're a writer because it's not as much of an outward process. It's a lot more internal. And even though I enjoy that sporadically, I needed something that was more. Interactive day to day something that was more more service related. Teaching really is a service. It's a calling. And so that was 1 of the reasons I switch is I just did not feel fulfilled or like I was having the impact that I wanted. And with teaching, even though it's really hard, I do feel like I'm really helping and making a difference. And especially now that I've seen that firsthand, what that really looks like. What's the long term impact for these students and their families? I feel so much more. Fulfilled. And that's why I made this change years ago. So that was also good for me to feel like, wow, I'm so glad I switched careers. I went back to school, got two other degrees that was all worth it for me.

Whittney:

I look at my own journey, and, I know you and I have talked about how, my career has been much more linear than yours, mine, shows a progression in the same field, whereas you, took a minute to, to find teaching, and to realize that that's where you were, needing to be, but I mean, in higher ed, what you said about, writing being like, working on your own and not really having the, interaction with the impact you're making, I, I mean, I felt that a bit in higher ed, too. I just don't think I realized that that was a piece of it that was missing for me until I started with, the organization I work for now, because I do have more of the direct interaction with the impact we're making, I think it is, it's a big difference, maybe at the university level if I had, started teaching adjunct in, a different department or something, I would have noticed that. But, it's, important to be interacting with the impact you're making,

Susan:

Yeah, definitely. I also took a break from teaching at one point in time. Wasn't really working out. Long story there. Now I, looking back, I see one bad experience does not necessarily mean you need to Not continue with something, but at that time it was bad enough that it seemed like, wow, this is a sign from the universe. I'm going to switch into the corporate space or try different things. So I actually did work in the corporate space and a little bit in higher ed and both those scenarios, I was doing sales related jobs and for a while it was kind of exciting. It was fun, especially when I first moved to Philadelphia and I was working in a high rise and we had work trips and it was just very fancy. And it was so exciting and teaching is not glamorous at all. have chalk on your pants. You constantly have paper cuts. My school in Philly, there's no air conditioning. So you're sweating. but in the corporate world, it's, it is very glamorous, but I. For a time I was fulfilled by that just cause it was so different and exciting. But then over, longer than a year period of time, I was so miserable. Remember when I was working at temple and I felt such guilt because I had an amazing position. Really, anybody would want this position that I had working in the business school. I went to China on a work trip, which very grateful for that experience. But I was so unfulfilled by doing sales. Again, this was the perfect scenario. I had a really nice office. I could leave at five. I didn't have homework to do, but I was absolutely miserable. And ultimately that's what led me back to teaching as I was being called to do something that was more hands on, more service related, more one on one helping people, which sales was not it for me. I felt the opposite. I was not interested in trying to, twist somebody's arm into coming to my school.

Whittney:

Yeah. I'm a big proponent of higher ed, and I've spent my whole career, working in higher ed in some way, shape, or form. now, in my current role, we work with 21, partners in higher ed. So, I'm not just at a single university or college anymore. But, I I feel like I've always had the higher ed piece because higher ed is so important for me because I think education can really change your life and the trajectory of your, your path, for the better. And so I, I feel like I've always had that piece of it. I haven't ever worked in a corporate job where there was a profit line or anything like that. so I don't have the experience that you do, working in the corporate world, when you were in finance or whatever. But, for me it's much different in the non profit space because it just feels completely different to me. I feel like somehow I'm on, more on the front, funny, front lines of the impact.

Susan:

Yeah. You're right, but I, I think nothing sucked my soul more than being in a job that didn't align with my values. I didn't really feel that way in journalism because I do still feel like a lot of things about writing and journalism do align with me. It was just that I needed, the next level of alignment. But with working in sales, it just, it literally sucked my soul. I've never felt more unhappy in my life. Even when I was in the teaching job, that was bad. That was, uh, Maybe soul sucking in a different way. but, anyway, this just goes along with feeling like you're in the job for the right reasons, for the right value system and the alignment, and I just felt like I reached, the pinnacle of feeling that way this past year, especially toward, all the graduations at the end of the year. Whitney, I had a really sweet and amazing interaction with one of my parents, one of my students parents. the day after graduation, I, I was cleaning out my classroom I got called down to the office and you always get nervous when you get called to the office. Like why, have I in trouble, but no, when I got to the office, one of my. Students parents was standing there with a dozen roses and she doesn't speak much English at all other than to say hello and thank you. So we're standing there kind of looking at each other. So full of emotion and she Couldn't really tell me what she wanted to say. All she could say was, we love you. And she gave me these roses. I burst into tears. She literally had tears running down her cheeks. It was such an emotional moment. I've never felt such gratitude from somebody and. Again, just one of those moments where you're like, this is why I do this. And it was one of the sweetest things that anyone's ever done for me. I feel like this particular family, I didn't even realize how much I had impacted their lives, they came from another country for their kids to get education. And they really made it through because of me. So it was such a meaningful moment. I have not really come down from that high since, so I'm Riding that wave of gratitude and perspective and I'm taking that into this next school year. And I just feel so much more enlightened and inspired.

Whittney:

Yes. I remember that, you made a post on your social media about that, and, it's just like the culmination of why you do what you do, and it was so sweet, and I'm so happy that you got that moment, and, that will fuel you for years to come.

Susan:

Absolutely. It really, really does. I just feel like that's what I needed just to be like, okay, yeah, this is it. This is why I do this. And it was really. Really fulfilling to feel that because not everybody has moments like that, or even a moment like that. I was talking recently with a friend of ours who lives in San Francisco and I was telling him about this. And he said to me, not everybody feels that way about their job. And he, he sort of admitted that he doesn't feel that way about his job in terms of feeling like enlightened and rich, like this is, this is my purpose. He said that he's just come to accept that he likes his job, but he's never going to feel like this moment of enlightenment inspiration. And he was like, that's really cool that you feel that because, some people will never feel that. And he's like, I don't think I'm going to feel that. So that's amazing that you're able to feel that way about what you do. And it is that actually really, was a revelation to me too, because as you just said, you and I, it is really important for us to feel that in our jobs. When I didn't feel that I was rotting from the inside, even though I was in this amazing, cushy position, I felt so guilty for not feeling fulfilled, but you just have to do what feels right to you. You can't feel guilty for not feeling like you're in the right job. Again, it just depends on your priority. They might be in a position where they're not feeling fulfilled or whatever, but for them, maybe it's just about the paycheck or my friend was saying, he tries to feel more fulfilled in the hobbies that he's doing after work. So maybe, yes, he is working cause he's good at it. And he, he's making enough money to live where he does. But he tries to do things that really make him feel happy outside of work and in his free time. And, I just feel really lucky that I can have both those things. I can enjoy my job and feel fulfilled, but also enjoy my hobbies and things I'm doing outside of work. So I feel really happy about that.

Whittney:

Yeah. And, you're right. for some people, maybe the excitement of working in the corporate world or the excitement of the challenges they have in a corporate job is, is going to be the thing that makes them excited and happy and fulfilled, right? we're not trying to say that, everybody needs to feel the way we do about, a mission, oriented position or career, it just all comes down to what's important to you or what will give you the life that will make you the most happy. I always tell, the students that come through our programs, whenever they're thinking about, choosing a college, for example, a lot of our students end up choosing Ivy League schools. A lot of our partners are Ivy League schools, but it, puts this precedent out there that, if you're not, getting into an Ivy League school or attending an Ivy League school that you haven't succeeded. you're letting people down because that's not the path you're choosing. But I always try to stress that the school that is right for you is the school that offers you two things, the ability to be happy and the ability to be successful. So if that's at your local community college because you need to be close to your family Or you have children and you don't want to move your children so you need to stay where you are or whatever happy, and then will that school provide you a degree That will allow you to have a career that you find successful If so, it doesn't matter if that is at princeton or yale or at northern virginia community college

Susan:

Oh yeah. That's definitely a good rule of thumb. you and I both went to Penn state and that's an incredible experience and amazing network. But I got my. Second bachelor's I had to for when I went back to teaching, I had to get my English degree and then also I got my masters in education. I went to Bloomsburg University, just a small state school, and I loved my experience there. I think there's definitely something to be said for a small school. You and I know from going to the branch campus of Penn State Altoona before we went to main campus, I would, I mean, that I feel like changed my whole life. I'm still friends with all the people that I met there. They're, lifelong friends. But yeah, the small schools have always worked out the best for me. You get more of an intimate experience. You get to know your professors. I wouldn't trade that for anything. So you're right.

Whittney:

Yeah.

Susan:

Yeah, everybody, everybody's, perfect scenario looks different, you can't compare yourself to someone else.

Whittney:

Right.

Susan:

And, that's something else I wanted to add. Speaking of comparison is when I was talking with my friend about how, all these people are in jobs, but very few of them feel this level of. Inspiration or enrichment, it made me think about like back when I was struggling to find my career. Cause I've been, I've been all over. I was in, oh my gosh, since I moved to Philly, I had so many careers and side hustles, that's kind of mind boggling. but I always compared myself to other people like, Oh, so and so is in this job and I thought they were happy or, Oh man, this person's had a really linear career path and I always compared myself to other people who are in these jobs. And now I'm realizing like, yeah, they were in these jobs, but were they happy? Most of the time, no.

Whittney:

Well, I feel like, in general, the things that you think you know about another person based on what their, LinkedIn profile says or what their social media photos are saying, It's a carefully curated selection. Of their experience, And sometimes it's it's hard to remember that whenever you're comparing your experience to theirs.

Susan:

yeah, definitely. And I will say also that, one of the other reasons I'm thriving this summer is I just turned 40 on Sunday, August 6th. Or it's been less than a week at this point, but yeah, thank you. I feel also not just because of my work experiences, but just in general, my life experiences, I feel the best I've ever felt in my whole life. Maybe just riding off the journey I've had with my school year, that started on such a high and I've just. Feel that way about the rest of my life too. Like everything's just come full circle and I get it now.

Whittney:

Yeah.

Susan:

I think back to when I was 30 and honestly, not that there was anything wrong with my life, but it was, I was still trying to figure out where I was going to live, where I was going to work. Like, why can't I stick to something? Like other people are able to stick to things, I was not happy. I was not happy and I wasn't depressed or anything, but now that I know what it feels like to have your shit figured out for pardon my language. I did not have things figured out then. And it was a struggle. It was a struggle for a lot of years in my thirties. And I think a lot of that came down to comparing myself to other people. Not even really on purpose, but with social media, everything's in your face all the time. Even if you're not looking for a comparison, it's just there. And I was constantly like, how come my other friends were able to stick to one job since graduation? Or how come this person was able to get married? Well, at this point, I'm realizing that a lot of those friends hate their jobs. They don't feel any fulfillment for those jobs. Um, a lot of those marriages aren't still. Together, or they're, marriages have fallen apart. So I think when you hit 40, you start to realize things that you thought were like the pinnacle or what you should have. It was all just a facade, you know? I mean,

Whittney:

Yeah.

Susan:

that's not always true. I definitely still have friends who are successful and happy and things like that, but you just realize everybody's on a different path. What works for somebody else doesn't work for you. There's no. Place you're supposed to be at a certain time. but I didn't really know that when I was 30, I felt like I was behind, like I didn't have the job yet, or I wasn't settled down somewhere, or I wasn't, I guess I was dating, but I wasn't happily dating. I just understand things so much more now and I have not ever felt better.

Whittney:

So what do you think, clicked for you? stopping the comparisons? Or, do you think there was something else?

Susan:

I think it was really just figuring out things myself. Once I started feeling really happy where I was and what I was doing, then when you're really happy with yourself, you really don't care about other people. But I think when I was 30, since I was still trying to figure everything out and trying out different things, I wasn't happy. Yet. And so it's so easy when you're not happy and you're in a very vulnerable place emotionally or just personally, it is very easy to feel like someone else has more than you. Cause I didn't feel confident in where I was, and it just takes time. I don't think that I did anything wrong. Yeah, you know, there's like little decisions here or there that I could have done differently, but I don't think I made mistakes. I think that it just takes longer sometimes to figure things out. And that's just the way it's supposed to be. Who would have thought 10 years ago that I would end up in Philly teaching at a public school teaching English as a second language. That's not even what I went to school for. I honestly ended up in that job on a staffing error, things just happen sometimes. And so, and I, and it wasn't always easy. Like, I think I struggled the first couple of years. My first year back in the classroom after the pandemic was really hard, you know, and this past year was hard. But it's just that once I went through all those hardships and understood, what was at the other side of that, now that I've experienced that, I won't mind as much going through the ups and downs because I get where that all leads, you know, but it's very difficult when you don't know where that leads or if it's going to be what you thought it was going to be, or.

Whittney:

Yeah. So, how do you think you realize, this is gonna sound weird, but how do you think you realize that you were finally in a groove where you're happy, And you're just confident in moving forward.

Susan:

Oh man, well, it's been a process for sure and it's not over. It's not like, Oh, I've reached the pinnacle and now I'm just coasting for the rest of my life. I understand there's definitely going to be peaks and valleys as they say. I get that. Now I have more of the wisdom and understanding to be able to navigate those in a more healthy, clear minded way. I had to learn myself and what works for myself. Like I said, last year was really hard coming back after the pandemic, after being virtual, being back in the classroom, the students had to learn how to be students again. We had to learn how to be in person teachers again. I was really struggling with managing my time because during the pandemic time was different. I had more time. We were all virtual. I had picked up a lot of. Additional jobs like tutoring and different things I could do when I was at home when I had more time and space. Um, and then I tried to continue all those things when I went back in the classroom and realized I couldn't juggle it all, but, and we've talked about this on the show before, but I couldn't just quit things. I had to slowly drop those things over time when they came to a natural ending point. So for me, going through the process of seeing what I can handle, what I can't finally, it's taken me this past year, finally, I didn't have all the side hustles and I had space to breathe and I could use any downtime that I had for myself. I'd started going to the gym after school, I started focusing more on eating healthy. And I finally had space to do that because I wasn't filling my time with all these side hustles. And I learned about setting boundaries on school. I realized I was putting so much pressure on myself to deliver these incredible presentations and things when really. You don't need to do that. You don't need to go above and beyond every day. sometimes it's just showing up is enough, honestly. Just being there for the kids. It's, I'm not saying I just show up with no plan, but I don't have to be super teacher every day. Sometimes it's just like being that stable, consistent presence for the kids. And it doesn't always have to be this. A plus lesson plan. It just has to be a plan and I have to be there. so I maybe lowering the expectations a bit while still having a high standard, but, not killing myself to do it,

Whittney:

not

Susan:

boundaries on my time.

Whittney:

for perfection, maybe.

Susan:

Yeah, exactly. And that's hard when you're a high achiever or perfectionist, that's hard, but realizing where is a stopping point? If it was seven o'clock in the evening and I knew I had to start winding down by seven 38, I realized you know what? I'm not going to make this extra activity because it's going to take me another hour and I need to start getting ready for bed. So just Cutting it off and maybe doing the have to haves not always the nice to haves

Whittney:

hmm,

Susan:

nice to haves would be good. Like once a week, on a Friday, sometimes the nice to haves like a game or an activity I planned are good, but you don't need that every day. I realized I have to take better care of myself because I'm, I'm leading the show there. Right. So if I come in haggard and worn down and I didn't get enough sleep last night, or I didn't get to eat or exercise, I'm not going to be a good teacher.

Whittney:

yeah,

Susan:

Focusing on myself is really what I think turned things around because I felt so much happier and starting to learn that I can use personal days, which I never did before. I'm a crazy person that I never used personal days until this past year. Like what was I doing?

Whittney:

yeah, yeah,

Susan:

Yeah, but it was a process to get to the point where I realized how to manage things in a way where I can be healthy and still do a good job. And it's just a little bit of letting go. You don't always have to go like full speed ahead.

Whittney:

yeah. I mean, that's, I feel like that's the hardest lesson to learn. Is dropping the perfectionism. Because, I still struggle with that myself. I want to do all of the things and I want to do them all at the highest level. But, something's gotta give, right? Cause, unless I'm just like never sleeping again. You know?

Susan:

Yeah, exactly. So I guess how I reached all this was just, first of all, this is the longest I've been in a job in general. Okay. Just to put things in perspective for how much I've gone back and forth over time. And I finally been in a job for four going into my fifth year. That in itself was helpful in having a consistent job, which is really what I was always striving to have. Like, It stressed me out whenever I would change positions because I knew I wouldn't be able to get that longevity in a position to really figure things out. It's very hard when you're constantly jumping around because you never get to the point where you figure it out. I mean, and you never truly figure it out, but you know what I mean? You start to understand or get into the rhythm of a job, which you can't do if you're only there short term. So I think one of the things was just having consistency going through something enough times that. I have more wisdom and that's how I feel in life too. So 40 is not scary. It's to me personally, way better than turning 30. I just feel so good. I wished I felt this way when I was 30.

Whittney:

So incredible. Like, you know, makes me actually not worried about turning that myself whenever it's my turn.

Susan:

Really in the grand scheme of things, 40 is not that old. Really? It's not. And, it's an amazing thing to, to age in a way where you are entering every day with so much more knowledge. That's really refreshing.

Whittney:

Yeah. So, Susan, we've been talking about, you turning 40. and it's a big, special birthday. So, what did you do to celebrate?

Susan:

Yeah. So I had the most amazing birthday. I went to New York with my sister and 2 of my best friends. Um, Whitney, of course, you're you're a best friend also, but you're not you're not local. So,

Whittney:

I don't know. It's, it's a big problem. Yeah.

Susan:

Yeah, I know. I know. But we'll have to celebrate another time when we're together. I went to New York and I, you know, cause everyone talks about. Anytime it's a milestone birthday, you want to do big trip or something like that. and my friends and I had been talking about 40th for a long time. And every time we would get together, especially during the pandemic, when you couldn't go anywhere, we're always like, yeah, let's talk about what we're going to do for our 40th. And we would just dream up these biggest extravagant trips. But then when the time came, I'm like, yeah, listen, this trip doesn't line up with my bank account here. You know, I'm not actually going to go to Paris. I think you also just realize maybe, you know, this is another nugget of wisdom that I have is you don't need to do something extravagant. All you really need is the people that mean the most to you and just anything that's special to you. Like, I really love musical theater, whenever I go to a show or any kind of artistic experience, I absolutely love it. I've always wanted to do Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. So in hindsight, maybe that wasn't the best thing to pick in the summer, which is peaks peak tourist season. Cause we ended up waiting in these insane lines the whole day, but I still really love that experience. It was very special to see the Statue of Liberty up close. She's beautiful.

Whittney:

Mm

Susan:

Lady Liberty is everything I expected her to be. we took a ferry over to Liberty Island and I loved Liberty Island. It was so pretty. by that point after waiting in lines all day, we were very excited to get some Statue of Liberty lemonade.

Whittney:

Mmh. Yeah.

Susan:

So, we enjoyed that, but every thing that we did, we had to wait in these long lines. We had to wait in security check to get to the Liberty Island. Then we had to wait in a line to get to Ellis Island. Then we had to wait in the line to get back, back to battery park. So I swear to you that I was probably waiting in lines for like five or six hours that day. It was like two hours for each line, which is crazy. I really feel like there was a problem with the return ferry. 1 didn't come for 2 hours. Those ferries should be coming back and forth every 30 minutes. There was definitely something

Whittney:

Yeah.

Susan:

not going as planned that day. maybe the ferry driver called out. I don't know, but that was a little much, all the lines and stuff, but. You know, I'll never forget that day. We, we joked that it was like the immersive immigrant experience because we were standing like sardines and these lines and the heat with people from all around the world. You know, um, we survived Ellis Island. We kept saying.

Whittney:

Mm hmm.

Susan:

When we got back onto the mainland, on Saturday night, we kind of freewheeled it for dinner and found this nice Japanese restaurant and got some noodle dishes. And my sister got ramen Then we found a rooftop bar. It called the star child or something? I don't know, but we were on this rooftop for when it was. Turn midnight for my birthday. And it was just this beautiful glittering view of the city. And then the next day we, my sister and I went to church at St. Patrick's cathedral, which was really special. It was really pretty. And what better way to start out your 40th birthday than church, the cathedral, very sort of like heavenly experience. and then we had lunch at this awesome family style Italian restaurant called car mines rate and right near Broadway. Um, that was Amazing. The food was just to die for. And then we went and saw Back to the Future on Broadway. So that was just incredible, Whitney.

Whittney:

Mm hmm Yeah, I, I keep thinking about Since you've Said that that was The show you chose like How is Back to the Future on Broadway? Does it translate to a musical?

Susan:

Yes, absolutely. So, right before I'd left for New York, I had gotten together with some friends in Philly. a little casual birthday celebrating before I left on my trip. And one of my friends is in the theater world and she had other theater friends who had been seeing different shows on Broadway. And she, I said to her like, Oh, how was it? Cause she said a few of her friends saw it and she was like, Oh, you know, they thought it was okay. They were like, it's just like the movie. And I'm like, Well, that's great because I love the movie. That's one of my favorite movies So I'm like, I don't care if it's like the movie, that's what I want. I want it to be like the movie, but she kind of seemed like a little like, Oh, they thought it was okay. And so I was like, all right, well, we'll see. But I thought it was unbelievable. It was, it was like the movie, but better

Whittney:

Mm hmm.

Susan:

because it had songs and choreography and effects and Oh my gosh, the DeLorean, the DeLorean. Was amazing and actually flew, you know, how back to the future ends where doc is going ahead 30 years. And he says where we're going, we don't need roads. And then the DeLorean starts to fly. Oh my gosh, the effects were just incredible. The ensemble cast was so talented. We loved the lead actor. He was just so good. So likable. I just can't say enough good things about it. It was literally one of the best things I've ever seen.

Whittney:

Mm hmm. Amazing. Well, I'm so glad that that was the show you picked for your birthday then.

Susan:

Oh, I knew as soon as I started looking for shows and I saw that it hadn't, it just actually came out officially three days before my birthday. So it was meant to be,

Whittney:

It was totally meant to be.

Susan:

There was no question from the beginning that that's what I wanted to see. I just felt like this is what I'm doing for my birthday. This is exactly meant to be. Um, you just smile from start to finish. It's such a feel good, happy musical. I've been listening to the soundtrack nonstop since I left the show. I would love to see it again. Actually. man, it's, it was just so good. So much talent. So, so feel good. So happy. I had the best time and I could not have asked for a better birthday experience. Everything was absolutely perfect.

Whittney:

Amazing. I'm so happy that that was your 40th birthday experience.

Susan:

Oh yeah, it was. And again, I, it just showed you you don't need to be in Europe or Cancun. I was two hours from my house, but was, still doing all these amazing things. I had the best people, the best food, the best show, you can do anything even in your own city. We always feel like we have to go a step beyond for our. Milestone birthdays, but you don't really have to do that. You don't have to always spend an arm and a leg for me, it was keep it simple. And that was just perfect for me.

Whittney:

Yeah, no, totally works, keeping it simple is, one of the, life hacks of all time, right?

Susan:

I, I, like I said, I've been having the best summer. I'm just feeling so enlightened with everything. And I'm just hoping to continue riding that wave into my next year. And, you know,, things are not always going to be smooth sailing, but I feel like sort of a depth of. A depth of good experiences that's given me such a good platform to go forward from.

Whittney:

amazing, I love it. Well, that's probably the best, line you could end talking about your birthday on, right?

Susan:

Yeah, it was great. I'm, I'm definitely still feeling, elevated from that experience. That's the best thing about birthdays is you set yourself up to have an amazing year and just try to continue riding that wave and stop thinking about how old you actually are. Maybe we need to stop thinking about I'm going to be such and such an age. Just think about what you are right now. And even when you are that age, it's really not that scary. You're still exactly the same person you were, just better.

Whittney:

yeah. Well, for Nate and I, half the time we're like, How old are we now? Which is our, inside joke about we're getting old because we can't even remember how old we are.

Susan:

But I feel like we look the same. We feel the same. I mean, you know, you're constantly making tweaks to what works for you. I do feel like I need more sleep. You just have less tolerance for wanting to stay out when you just want to go home and relax and so priorities shift. And that's probably what people notice. They're like, Oh, I don't stay out as late anymore, but that's fine. Now you're just spending your time differently. It doesn't mean it's worse or you're old. You just might have different priorities and things you want to do with your time. And I think that's good and that's healthy.

Whittney:

Yeah. Circling back to what we were saying earlier about jobs, you know, like, just comes down to your priorities.

Susan:

Right. And a lot of times it takes a while to figure out what those priorities are. And it's okay that you don't have it all figured out. I think if that's something I could go back and tell myself when I was 30, it's like, Hey, you're actually not supposed to have this figured out. This is very cliche, but it's not like there's a manual, you know? There is no benchmark that you're supposed to be at at a certain age. I mean, look at your veterans going back to school. If they would live by that, they, they think that they were unsuccessful and that's not true at all. Sometimes we just have different experiences for different reasons. Like Maybe they weren't in school when they were between the ages of 18 and 22 or whatever, because they were serving our country. and maybe I wasn't in this successful quote unquote successful job at a certain age because I still had to experience other things to figure it out, you know,, and you realize now looking back that those other experiences are what makes you who you are. That's why I'm at this level of enlightenment that I am now because I experienced all those things. If I had just stayed in the same job since I was 22, I don't think I would have learned half as many things as I know right now.

Whittney:

Yeah, exactly. and you also wouldn't appreciate where you are now if you hadn't gone through that, those experiences. Mm hmm. the experiences are how we learn and grow.

Susan:

Everybody has, everyone has, a reason, of why they're in your life or every job has a reason. And, the more you can appreciate that instead of seeing it as a mistake, just seeing it as a stepping stone and a learning experience. Anyway, Whitney, I'm so excited for now that you're done with your work travel, that we are going to be jumping back on board here with some more episodes coming up in the fall. We're going to be having a dating episode in which I'm going to talk with a friend of yours about dating and we're definitely going to be talking more about the books that we've been reading this summer, things that we've been watching. So we have a lot of fun things on deck.

Whittney:

yes, we do and I'm excited to be back in the routine of being home and podcasting with you

Susan:

Yes. Yay.

Whittney:

Yay